Continental O-300
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Greg Bockelman
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- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:38 pm
Continental O-300
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Postby Greg Bockelman »
Given airframes identical in every way, times, condition, etcetera, what would the difference in value be between low, mid and high time O-300's?
I know this is a broad question, but what would typical overhaul costs be for an O-300? How much for parts, how much for labor?
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- hilltop170
- Posts: 3485
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby hilltop170 »
Hi Greg-
I had my O-300-D rebuilt in 2006. It had 1750 SMOH and 38 years since the last major. With new cylinders, new crank, new mags and harness, repaired case, and everything else brought back to new specs ran $25,000. The overhauler charged $6,000 for his labor which was included in the price. The installer charge was on top of that and I don't really know what that ran. New baffles, new alternator, new starter, new battery, were all extra, as was motor mount NDT inspection and powder coat. I'm going to say $30,000 total for another 1500 hours = $20/hr.
Last edited by hilltop170 on Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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Greg Bockelman
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:38 pm
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby Greg Bockelman »
Aryana wrote:On the other end of the spectrum, Tom Downey (username TCDowney here on the forum) is a member of our association who is located in WA and would be my go to mechanic for a rebuild. He knows a lot about these O-300 engines and my feeling is that he would be able to do it cheaper than most shops. You'd probably learn a lot by just chatting with him for a few minutes.
Yeah, I know Tom from other boards.
I am trying to figure out how to value airplanes based on various times on engines. Kind of hard to do. Unless I plan to keep an airplane forever, it is kind of discouraging to pay $25,000 for an airplane, put another 25,000 into it and have it only worth $35,000.
But, that is the name of the ownership game.
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- T. C. Downey
- Posts: 548
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:58 am
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby T. C. Downey »
You could always have your local A&P do it, or you can under the supervision of any A&P.
It isn't like you must have all the machining tools, I send out everything to Aircraft specialities in Tulsa OK, and the case goes to Chuck Ney Enterprises. and buy all the new parts at aircraft specialities. and the cylinders I use are ECI.
http://www.aircraft-specialties.com
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- bagarre
- Posts: 2615
- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:35 pm
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby bagarre »
Another thing to consider is you don't HAVE to overhaul at TBO.
If it's making compression, making power and not making metal, I'd keep running the thing.
And when the little motor can't motor anymore, I'd be looking for an O-360 to slip in there instead of another O-300.
But that's just me.
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blueldr
- Posts: 4442
- Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 3:16 am
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby blueldr »
I'm sure it's mostly a matter of personal opinion, but I have flown a few C-170s equipped with four cylinder Locoming engines and the vibration difference is such that I would prefer to stick with the old six cylinder Continental C-145/O-300. The real answer,of course, is the Continental IO-360 when you want or need more power.
I've seen a Wittman Tailwind powered with a Continental O-300 using high compression pistons that raised the power to an estimated 160 HP. the engine was running strong with about 700 hours on it. That is, I guess, another advantage of an Experimental registration.
BL
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- N2625U
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:21 pm
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby N2625U »
My O300C was overhauled 3 years ago costing $28,000. This included annual, ECI cylinders, new crank, EI tach and oil press/temp, skytec starter, baffling, prop overhauled. Also powder coat mount and baffling.
Keep your speed up, Blackhawk on final behind you.
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- bagarre
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- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:35 pm
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby bagarre »
The TCM IO-360 is the ideal choice but the Lyco O-360 is a little bit more pragmatic (sadly) for a modern engine swap.
Neither will let me keep my beloved 1952 cowling tho.
The O-300 is a great solid motor that will do what it's supposed to until TBO, if you run it right.
But, it's getting ridiculous to overhaul one (IMO).
Dick, do you remember how high the guy bumped compression?
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blueldr
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- Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 3:16 am
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby blueldr »
David,
I don't know why you couldn't keep your "beloved" 1952 cowling with the installation of a TCM IO-360 engine, I kept mine with no modification.
I don't know too much about the high compression pistons in the O-300, but I belive he said be used C-85 pistons and estimated the pressure bump gave him 160 HP. He said the C-85 was the same bore but a shorter stroke and the wrist pin distance to head top was greater and the top outer circumference of the pistons had to be slightly champfered for clearance.
BL
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- bagarre
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Re: Continental O-300
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Postby bagarre »
Always thought the STC for the TCM 360 required the later model cowl.
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falco
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- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 5:44 pm
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby falco »
bagarre wrote:Always thought the STC for the TCM 360 required the later model cowl.
Nope. fits in the early and late cowls.
Moot point though.
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GAHorn
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- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby GAHorn »
Hoping to address your question in a direct manner.... The Aircrft Bluebook Price Digest provides guidelines for estimation of engine hourly overhaul values. The 2011 Bluebook quotes $11.11 per hour (based upon an 1800 hour TBO.)
Sooo..... if you have an "average" airplane with all other things being equal... (no such animal...but after-all, we ARE pretending...) This would mean the STANDARD is a 170 with a 900 hour since overhaul engine. An engine with 1,000 hours would be worth $1111.00 LESS and one with 200 hours LESS (700 hours) would be worth $2222.00 MORE than the one exactly at 900 hours.
Hope that answers your question.
(NOTE: The "value" does not take into account the vast differences in definitions of "TBO".... for example, one aircraft may have had all accessories/mags/carb/generator/pumps/etc/etc overhauled and new ignition harnesses and baffles....while another owner may have only had the basic/core engine overhauled. The two are NOT the same standard. You'll have to subjectively consider the differences. But if you generalize that each hour of operation of an engine reduces it's "fresh overhauled" value by $12/hr.... you'll be close to the ballpark.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
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Greg Bockelman
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- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:38 pm
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby Greg Bockelman »
gahorn wrote:But if you generalize that each hour of operation of an engine reduces it's "fresh overhauled" value by $12/hr.... you'll be close to the ballpark.)
Thanks. That helps.
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- voorheesh
- Posts: 603
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:22 am
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby voorheesh »
T. C. Downey wrote:You could always have your local A&P do it, or you can under the supervision of any A&P.
It isn't like you must have all the machining tools, I send out everything to Aircraft specialities in Tulsa OK, and the case goes to Chuck Ney Enterprises. and buy all the new parts at aircraft specialities. and the cylinders I use are ECI.
http://www.aircraft-specialties.com
I am not sure I would let "any A&P" supervise it. We just had a serious accident up in the Sierras where a Lycoming engine (PA28) failed 20 hours after the owner "overhauled" it under the supervision of an "A&P". Initial investigation suggests a gasket was improperly installed. Sound familiar? The A&P is not coming forward either. In fact, he is nowhere to be found. The pilot signed off his own return to service in the engine log and his records of work/overhaul performed on the engine components are strewn about a hangar somewhere. This poor guy's wife is not really anxious to round all that up. When he was able to talk with the NTSB investigator, he reported the engine ran great for the first 20 hours. Hmmm.
A qualified mechanic should be involved in any assembly of an aircraft engine and supervision should be full time meaning every step in the process. These engines are deceptively simple. There are Ads, updated service bulletins that supersede the old manufacturer's manual and if you don't know what you are doing you are asking for trouble. There is nothing wrong with building your own engine but my advice is to have someone like Downey involved every step of the way. "Any A&P" who isn't regularly involved/experienced in engine assembly may miss something and should also have assistance from a Downey or someone who knows what he/she is doing. For me, I would send it to a qualified Repair Station like Lycon or Skyways period.
Incidentally, the PA28 pilot had his transponder on 1200 but did not squawk 7700 when his engine quit over the most inhospitable terrain in the US. The only way to reach that wreck was by long line. Fortunately, an alert Fresno ATC controller heard a radio call and found the guy's transponder readout in his computer. This gave him a fix where the code was lost and he was able to send a CHP helicopter to rescue the pilot who ended up in intensive care for a few days. He would have died if there had been any further delay. To his credit, this pilot did have a flight plan but it would have been hours before that would have come in to play. This controller asked me why pilots are reluctant to declare emergencies or recognize when they are in deep trouble. Good question, because it happens more often than you might think. We need to be more careful and that is the reason I posted this. I apologize to those who may be offended.
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- T. C. Downey
- Posts: 548
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:58 am
Re: Continental O-300
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Postby T. C. Downey »
voorheesh wrote:
T. C. Downey wrote:You could always have your local A&P do it, or you can under the supervision of any A&P.
It isn't like you must have all the machining tools, I send out everything to Aircraft specialities in Tulsa OK, and the case goes to Chuck Ney Enterprises. and buy all the new parts at aircraft specialities. and the cylinders I use are ECI.
http://www.aircraft-specialties.comI am not sure I would let "any A&P" supervise it. We just had a serious accident up in the Sierras where a Lycoming engine (PA28) failed 20 hours after the owner "overhauled" it under the supervision of an "A&P". Initial investigation suggests a gasket was improperly installed. Sound familiar? The A&P is not coming forward either. In fact, he is nowhere to be found. The pilot signed off his own return to service in the engine log and his records of work/overhaul performed on the engine components are strewn about a hangar somewhere. This poor guy's wife is not really anxious to round all that up. When he was able to talk with the NTSB investigator, he reported the engine ran great for the first 20 hours. Hmmm.
A qualified mechanic should be involved in any assembly of an aircraft engine and supervision should be full time meaning every step in the process. These engines are deceptively simple. There are Ads, updated service bulletins that supersede the old manufacturer's manual and if you don't know what you are doing you are asking for trouble. There is nothing wrong with building your own engine but my advice is to have someone like Downey involved every step of the way. "Any A&P" who isn't regularly involved/experienced in engine assembly may miss something and should also have assistance from a Downey or someone who knows what he/she is doing. For me, I would send it to a qualified Repair Station like Lycon or Skyways period.
Incidentally, the PA28 pilot had his transponder on 1200 but did not squawk 7700 when his engine quit over the most inhospitable terrain in the US. The only way to reach that wreck was by long line. Fortunately, an alert Fresno ATC controller heard a radio call and found the guy's transponder readout in his computer. This gave him a fix where the code was lost and he was able to send a CHP helicopter to rescue the pilot who ended up in intensive care for a few days. He would have died if there had been any further delay. To his credit, this pilot did have a flight plan but it would have been hours before that would have come in to play. This controller asked me why pilots are reluctant to declare emergencies or recognize when they are in deep trouble. Good question, because it happens more often than you might think. We need to be more careful and that is the reason I posted this. I apologize to those who may be offended.
I see so many mistakes in your post that it's no wonder the LYCOMING quit.
What happened to the out of overhaul test? that surely was not complied with. I'll wager the engine was test run on the aircraft, check the manual.
The 0-300 series is a brick simple engine, and all you must do, is follow the book, test it properly.
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